Well, it's a skill. I think we don't recognize that it's a skill. We we come in thinking, well, if we're thinking about the other person, they're probably thinking about us, and that's not true. And so it's a skill to draw the line and and know when when it matters to stand up. And you're not a pushover, and you could still be nice, but you're still gonna stand up for what you need for your business.

And just not allow people to manipulate me Right. And take advantage of my kindness. Like, you know, whether they were doing it intentionally or not or whether, you know, they they were. Like, I look back and then I go, yep. Yep. They were. Yep. That was absolutely what was happening there. They were preying on my kindness and my empathy Mhmm. To prioritize them over me, and I can't let that happen again.

Well, it's important to call it out because I think we've all been through it, and it makes the rest of us feel a little bit better when we know that we're not the only ones.

Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

So we talked a little bit about sort of collaboration and diversity and empathy. And and in my research, I think I found one of the things you do that that exemplifies that is the packaging pool party, which I so love. So you've really made Georgette accessible to small businesses through this initiative. Can you tell us a little bit more about what it is and why it's important to support these smaller brands?

Yeah. Absolutely. So part of it goes back to our origin story as a business, and the founder, she knows the reason she started it was she had had a cupcake bakery of her own, really believed in design and marketing and the importance of it, and was incredibly frustrated with the ability to get really good quality packaging for a small business. So that like, it goes back to that, like, literally where our roots are. But as we've grown as a business, we've also, obviously, from a very practical, you know, pragmatic point of view, those smaller orders, those smaller businesses are not always the most profitable. So we've we've changed in terms of the or we've tried to change in terms of the types of clients we deal with, and we've, moved to a more profitable model, which is fine. Obviously, we've had to do that as a business. But at the same time, it's still been really important to me to be able to offer something to those people because number one, it's origin story. Number two, I've been that person. I was that person when we found a crummy cookie dough. So I I know what that's like. I think small businesses need need that marketing just as much, if not more, than a larger business. You know? So I wanted to find a way to reduce the barriers to entry, right, for branded packaging because there are, like, the minimum order quantities, the the total, you know, cost of spend. It's it's hard. It's high. And, also, a lot of them, just because they're small doesn't mean they're not ambitious. Right? Like, so many of our clients who we still deal with started small and have grown. Not all of them, but a lot of them have. And so, you know, it's really important to be able to make that accessible. Right? So the pool party is something that I really strongly believe is such a great way because, basically, like, how it works, if you're ordering a, you know, a donut box that fits six donuts. And, normally, as a if you're ordering them by yourself, you would need to order at least five thousand of them to get any kind of unit cost that makes sense. So what we did was we just decided, like, okay. There's efficiencies here. Right? If we're selling twenty thousand to one customer or if we're selling twenty thousand but breaking it up into five and five and five and five, There's efficiencies in the manufacturing process where, yeah, we still have to change out the print plates and maybe the ink wells, but we don't have to like, all the all the rest of it, all the rest of the overhead, the machines are already set up for the the construction of the box and all of that. So there's a huge savings. Right? So you can get five thousand boxes for the price that you would normally pay for twenty thousand. So that's that's, you know, just something that makes it accessible, and I think it's just really important to support those type of entrepreneurs. Like I said, I've been there. I know what it's like, and I just, yeah, I just am passionate about it.

I really love that initiative because small businesses turn into big businesses or you're not wrong. They can be a local business, and they can only ever do x, and that's what they want. And or they're at their success, and they're they're loving what they're doing. And and you can help them be more cost effective and then stay in business and be a a vibrant part of the community. I think it's such a cool initiative. I really do. Wish I had packaging because I would participate for sure. Makes me wanna package something. There's something about turning fifty. It's not just another birthday. It's a threshold, a shift, a moment when you start to see the world and yourself a little differently. For Jennifer, it came with a revelation. What other people think really doesn't matter, And this milestone isn't about age. It's about freedom. And what is she doing with this newfound freedom? Well, for starters, she's dancing. You recently turned fifty as did I. And so how does how has that milestone changed your perspective as a leader and an entrepreneur?

Honestly, it's changed everything in my life, I feel like, but, there was just I was just saying this to somebody the other day. Like, it was almost like this mental switch went off when I turned fifty in my brain. Like, literally, I was literally like, fuck it. Like, I'm going to do what I want to do, and I don't care what anybody thinks. Right? It's it it literally was just this paradigm shift. Right? And I do think it you know, you can comes down to, like, midlife, and you can call it a midlife crisis. You can call it whatever. It's like, you know what? I only have so many years left on this planet. I spent way too many of them caring what other people think. So, I mean, for me, it started off with things like like, I made a TikTok account, and I started doing TikTok getting, you know

Good for you.

And getting people, like, commenting, you know, go go home, grandma. I'm like, go like, I don't just because I'm fifty doesn't mean I don't like to dance or don't like, you know, or, like, really getting into working out again and fitness and health, but really focusing on it more from a health perspective. You know? When I was in my twenties, it was about looking good in a bathing suit. But now that I'm in my fifties, it's really about, you know, how do I increase my longevity and my strength to make sure I'm still active in my sixties, seventies, and eighties. Right? And and posting about that. So I've done, like, between Instagram and TikTok, I just started doing, again, post about dancing, posts about, you know, working out. And then I also start taking dance lessons, at a local dance studio. Yay. And I've been posting a lot of stuff about that too. Like, I'll post myself doing hip hop or heels or chair or whatever. And, you know, it's funny because I was really insecure about it at in you know, because it that's not our generation. We aren't we didn't grow up posting videos of our self dancing. Like, I didn't want anybody

to know what we were doing so we could get away with it.

In the room with our hairbrush. We weren't doing it for public reason. So it felt weird, and I felt like, oh, this is, like, cringey, and I'm trying to get attention. But literally almost every time I did it, I would have somebody either comment or reach out to me in a DM and just talk about how cool it was, how inspiring it was, you know, how, they were thinking about taking dance lessons now or or whatever. Right? So that all that to say, it kind of, like, that's where my brain started in terms of turning fifty and just kind of how I changed my perspective on life. And then I just think as well, then that translates naturally into leadership and business. I think part of it is just finding the fun and the joy no matter what. Like, whatever that means to you, life is short, and, you know, you've gotta find the joy no matter what. And that doesn't mean it's not gonna be stressful sometimes. But for instance, yesterday, and this is not something started by me at Georgette, but we do an annual pancake flipping contest on pancake Tuesdays.

Oh, I love that. That's such a great idea.

It's so fun. And, like, you know what? We're having a really stressful time in our business right now because of the tariffs and, you know, everything that's happening. But, like, it's two hours out of the week. We're gonna take we do we do these, you know, classic flip and run contests, and we time each other. We have heats and, you know, and just it's fun competition. And then we sit down to a pancake lunch together, And it's joy. It's joy. It's, you know, it and so, yeah, it's it it helps inform my decisions around being a leader and making sure that I am setting a good example for those kind of things in the business, making sure that their joy and fun are just as important. And it is one of our workplace values. Like, finding joy is one of our workplace values. So just keeping and that was something that I instituted those workplace values, just, like, about a year ago. And so that you know, all of that stuff up at turning fifty informs those kind of things. Right? And then also just that whole, like, just not being not being concerned with what people think. It sounds like it's maybe counterintuitive to the collaboration thing, but it's not. You know, I'm still getting advice and that from people and still taking in different perspectives. But at the end of the day, I have to live with me, and I have to look myself in the mirror. And, I will do what is right what I feel is right at the end of the day, and and I care so much less about what people think about that than I did five years ago even. It's crazy.

And I think the sooner the sooner you figure that out, anyone, the sooner you figure it out, the better off you're gonna be because it's not like you're not hearing the other person. It means you're not taking it home. It's meaning you're not living rent free in your head. It means you're in control of your decisions, and you take what people say and you make the decision. And and what people think about it, it doesn't really matter.

Yep. Exactly. Like I said, I I've gotta look myself in the mirror. Right? At the end of the day, I have to do I have to do what I think is right. Yeah. And if you don't agree with it, that's totally fine, but you don't have to look at me in the mirror. So Right.

Yeah. Exactly. Oh, I think it's great. I mean, what a great philosophy, really, is is not not really caring what people think and finding the joy. Those are two really important things, I think, as we enter this phase of our life, and good for you for calling it out and recognizing and living it. I mean, that that's the other thing. We can talk about it, but living it's a whole another thing.

It is. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I just don't care anymore. I don't care that I'm twenty years older than everybody else in my dance class. You know? I don't like, I literally don't care. I'm just having fun. And if you wanna judge me, that's a you problem. Right? Not me.

Right. Now you mentioned dancing. I'm gonna give you a little left left Sure. Left of center question because I research because that's what I like to do. So I saw on the website, the question was, if you could instantly become an expert in something, what would it be? And you said singing in a parallel universe. I'm on Broadway starring in Hamilton. I resonate with that. I'm a not secret at all Broadway lover. Every show, every song, and I only sing with a hairbrush. So what a great ambition of yours. I I envy your ability to say that out loud.

Yeah. I, I mean, I can kind of hold a tune, but not, like, not to any place where I would perform. One of my favorite things to do when I'm really stressed is to be in the car and just belt out whatever. Right? And sometimes it's Broadway. Hamilton's my favorite. I think I know every lyric off my heart. But also just, like, really, like, hip hop, r and b, whether it's nineties, two thousands, or current day, like, I love nothing more than just blasting the music in the car and driving around and performing for myself. People pull up to me at the stoplight, and I'm like, yeah. That's you know, whatever. But

That's me. Yep. Although I do I do the exact same thing. That's exactly I mean, my Broadway playlist is very vast. I do love Hamilton. I think I pretty much love all of them. I had the privilege of seeing Chorus Line on Broadway before it closed as, like, I was quite young. And then at the same time by accident, we saw Tyne Daly and Gypsy just as the extra show you picked up to right. And I knew nothing about the show. I was, like, fourteen or whatever. I don't know. And I didn't know anything about the show. I didn't know anything about her, and it just I just became obsessed with the whole thing. I like, I love seeing a show I don't know about, and then you dive in and love it and love it further. It's fantastic. So I love finding other Broadway lovers.

Yes. I mean, for me, my Broadway journey has been more specific in terms of, like, I'll watch something, and then it really hits home with me. I'll become obsessed with it. Like Mhmm. Rent Rent was like Oh,

I love Rent.

Oh my goodness. God. I love that show. You know, Wicked, like, that, you know, that kind of stuff. I don't go to New York without seeing a show. Mhmm. Music and singing and dancing, I'm just in love with. And, you know, I that's why, like, I took dance as a kid, and I never really went any farther with it. And I remember my mom I really, like, came back at my mom in my thirties, and I was like, why didn't why did you let me quit dance? Right? Because I was like, I really wish I still, you know, got those skills. And she was like, well, you wanted to quit when you got to high school, and it cost a lot of money. So that was it.

I was just gonna say that's when I stopped, and that's when a lot of that stuff happens. And, you know, we're trying to prevent that now in sport and dance and all the other things to so that girls don't drop out of those things because there's such a benefit. But, yeah, I was the exact same.

So, yeah, I'm just trying to change. I'm never gonna be on Broadway, but I just try and like, I did a video the other day for my dance studio. They were they're interviewing different, dancers that come to the studio about why they dance stuff. And one of the questions was, what are you most proud of with regards to your dance journey? And I was like, honestly, like, getting back on stage after thirty five years. Like, I hadn't been on stage since I was an early teenager. And then literally when I turned fifty, I got on stage at an outdoor festival in Kitchener and did this heels dance routine, and I was, like, so nerve right? Thirty five years it had been. And but I just did it, and, and I don't regret it. It was it was awesome.

Good for you. Good for you. I think that's fantastic. I mean, you've given us all kinds of great advice and all kinds of great stories that you've shared. But before I let you go, I wanna ask, what advice do you have for the next generation of women leaders?

For number one, I I actually find a ton of inspiration from young women. I think whether it's millennials or Gen z, they are so good, I find, the ones that I've interacted with, are so good at way better than we are about calling out sexism, about standing up for themselves. So I think growing up in a different world. Right? We had to learn that. You know, when we were in the eighties and nineties, we didn't really recognize it for what it was, and we were just socialized into that. And there's still lots to be changed and done, but I find that women in their twenties and thirties are really, really good at that, and I really am inspired by it. So I would just say, like, continue to do that. Right? It's so important, and you're just setting the table for the generations coming up behind you. But I think also, like, kind of tying in what we've talked about is, you know, find a way earlier in your life to not care what people think. You know? It really took me turning fifty and, you know, obviously, that's a bit of cliche, but it's also just a natural journey as you age that you're gonna think differently about your life. But if there's a way to incorporate that sooner in your life, to really, like, continue to collaborate, continue to get advice from people, but also once you've done that to trust your own instincts and just try not to question yourself, because your instincts are good. You can care what they have to say. You can care enough to get their advice from people you respect, but, ultimately, it doesn't matter what they think. You gotta look yourself in the mirror. And if there's a way to do that when you're twenty five or thirty, find it because it's gonna change your life.

Oh, thank you. That's good advice for, I think, anybody, any woman of any age. So thank you for sharing, and thank you for taking the time. This was so much fun.

Yeah. No problem. It was fun. Thank you. I really appreciate it.

Voices of Leadership is part of the Bespoke Productions Hub network of independent podcasters. If you are interested in partnering with us as a sponsor or if you have a podcast of your own, please visit bespoke productions hub dot com for more information. This episode is hosted, produced, and edited by me, Amy Schluter.