Leadership Unboxed | Leadership Stories | Women Leadership | Female Founders
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Join us for leadership stories from female founders, trailblazers in women leadership and entrepreneurs sharing their success stories.
Leadership isn’t just about titles—it’s about making a lasting impact.
What makes a good impression?
Can the right packaging—a perfectly folded, beautifully designed box—turn a simple donut into something special? Can the feel of a burger wrapper, or the weight of a coffee cup in your hand, shape not just the way we experience food, but the way we remember it?
It turns out, the answer is yes.
In this episode of Voices of Leadership, I sit down with Jennifer Appleby Vines, CEO of Georgette Packaging, to explore the fascinating intersection of branding, design, and human connection. Jennifer didn’t set out to run a packaging company, but leadership isn’t always a straight path. Jennifer started in the hospitality industry and built a successful career with the Charcoal group. She then co-founded Crumby Cookie Dough, a business that launched just as the world shut down in 2020. At the same time, she was working part-time at Georgette Packaging, a role that, at first, was just another piece of the puzzle. Until it wasn’t.
When the opportunity arose to buy the company as an employee, Jennifer took the leap. She navigated the unique transition from team member to CEO, and today, she continues to grow Georgette, helping businesses wrap their products and their stories in packaging that matters. As Jennifer has learned, great branding isn’t just about a logo or a box it’s about connection, trust, and the emotional impact of a well-crafted experience.
We also talk about turning 50. It’s not just another birthday. It’s a threshold. A shift. A moment when you start to see the world, and yourself, a little differently.
For Jennifer, it came with a revelation: what other people think really doesn’t matter. And this milestone wasn’t about age, it was about freedom.
And what is she doing with this newfound freedom?
Well, for starters…she’s dancing.
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Speaker 0
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You know, find a way earlier in your life to not care what people think. You know, it really took me turning fifty and, you know, obviously, that's a bit of cliche, but it's also just a natural journey as you age that you're gonna think differently about your life. But if there's a way to incorporate that sooner in your life to really, like, continue to collaborate, continue to get advice from people, but also once you've done that to trust your own instincts and just try not to question yourself, because your instincts are good. Speaker 0
What makes a good first impression? Can the right packaging, a perfectly folded beautifully designed box transform a simple doughnut into something special? Can the feel of a burger wrapper or the weight of a coffee cup in your hand shape not just the way we experience food, but the way we remember it? Is a box that important? It turns out the answer is yes. Welcome to Voices of Leadership, my podcast that tells the stories of women who are redefining success and thriving on the edge of change. My guest today, Jennifer Appleby Vines, didn't set out to become the CEO of a packaging company. But leadership, as it turns out, isn't always a straight path. It's a series of pivots, lessons, and unexpected opportunities. Jennifer started in the hospitality industry and built a successful career with the Charcoal Group. She then cofounded Crummy Cookie Dough, a business that launched just as the world shut down in twenty twenty. At the same time, she was working part time at Georgette Packaging, a role at first was just another piece of the puzzle, until it wasn't. When the opportunity arose to buy the company as an employee, Jennifer took the leap. She navigated the unique transition from team member to CEO. And today, she continues to grow Georgette packaging, helping businesses wrap their products and their stories in packaging that matters. Because as Jennifer has learned, great branding isn't just about a logo or a box. It's about connection, trust, and the emotional impact of a well crafted experience. I think it's really cool that you and I met at a Yeah. I don't know what to call it a mastermind dinner necessarily because Trish Trish Mommy hasn't really named it, but I love the fact that she invited a bunch of women, twelve women to dinner. And I got the invite. I didn't know who was coming. I said yes. And I show up, and some people I knew, there were some old friends there, and some people I didn't know like yourself. And and look at what what happened from one dinner. I mean, how how cool is that? Speaker 1
I know. I I literally can't wait for it again. I think I felt the same. I was like, why is she keeping this all secret? But it was, like, it was quite cool that she did that. Right? Because you don't prejudge. You just come in with, oh, no. This is gonna be really cool because you have no idea who's gonna be there. And same thing. Like, there's definitely people I knew, but lots of people I didn't. And just, like, I love that it was a mix of women at different levels of, like, just literally launching businesses, you know, and to women who've launched thirty businesses. You know? And Speaker 0
Exactly. And they're like, I might do another one tomorrow, but I'm not sure. Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. I actually messaged Trisha at some point, and I said, we got some awesome advice when I emailed everybody about bookkeeping and accounting and stuff. Got some awesome recommendations. Like, even just stuff like that, to be able to reach out to a group of women like that, I think is so invaluable. Speaker 0
Well, it's always great to have resources outside of your normal network for and it sounds it's not it sounds boring bookkeeping, but it's so important. And it's the little things we often need help with. I mean, we were all we're all either starting businesses, running them, selling them. We we we do big ideas. No problem. But sometimes those little things while you're doing the big idea, you need a lot a little bit of help with. And to meet new people and have new resources is is very valuable. Speaker 1
Yeah. And referrals. Right? Like, to me, referrals are the best way to get to hire those kind of people. Right? So Speaker 0
Exactly. Speaker 1
No. I'm looking I'm really excited about the next one. Speaker 0
Yeah. So it was a privilege to meet you, and I'm excited we're having this conversation today because I didn't know anything about your business either. So your company, Georgette pack packaging, is one I believe people interact with every day, but may not fully understand, which is the most exciting part about this conversation. Speaker 1
Yeah. Speaker 0
So can you give us a quick overview of what you do and the industries you serve? Speaker 1
Yes. Absolutely. So Georgette Packaging, we create custom printed packaging mostly for food businesses. We have also and we do serve, you know, health and beauty and ecommerce and the pet industry and and a bunch of other verticals, but our kind of origin story is in the food business. And so that's kind of the wheelhouse we've the niche we've carved out. And, it's a it's a passion for me because I have such a history in that in that sector, and I really understand, like, fully what it means to be a food entrepreneur, to be in that in that business. It's not the same as running a nine to five type office business. It's completely different. And, so yeah. So we do anything from donut boxes to coffee cups to pastry bags. Like, those are, you know, shopping bags. Those are those are kind of our, main staples. In terms of, like, if, you know, the local audience would would recognize people that we've dealt with locally, We make all of For All ice creams packaging. So Speaker 0
Oh, my gosh. Speaker 1
And Adjoa is just, like, an amazing person to work with. Speaker 0
She is. Yeah. Speaker 1
Her and I got to know each other a few years ago even, like, through our own other businesses. So, yeah. So we we help her with her packaging. We have worked with Lady Glazed Donuts. We have worked with Smile Tiger, you know, a number of local businesses, but we do do a lot of business in the US. And, we do probably about seventy five percent of our business in the US. So, yeah, we're just kind of out there to support food entrepreneurs in their journey to market their business in in every way they can and and find a way to support them. So we kind of help people through like, packaging is actually quite a technical buy. A lot of people wouldn't know that, but especially when it comes to boxes, the types of construction, the types of board, the types of print. Like, there's so many things to think about. And, you know, if you're running a food business, you don't have time. You're not like you know, you're in your business twenty four seven. And, you know, so that's what we're there for, right, to help guide them and be those experts to to guide them through that process and use our expertise to help them create the best packaging they can they can create. Speaker 0
It's interesting that you say, you know, it's technical, but, also, the packaging is almost like a first impression. So can you talk a little bit about why packaging plays such a crucial role in brand and marketing strategy? Speaker 1
Yeah. Absolutely. So branded packaging and packaging is such a psychological, has such a psychological impact. So there's a study done in twenty eighteen. I believe it's published in Forbes that showed that seven this is Americans, but seventy two percent of Americans say that the packaging of a product has an influence on their buying decision. And we've all been there. Right? Like, you've been wandering through even something like a bookstore. Like, it's not packaging, but, you know, you see the cover of a book and you're like, oh, that looks cool. I'll buy that book just based on the cover. Right? Or you're comparing a couple of different things and the quality of the packaging or the design of the packaging or you know, it definitely influences our purchasing. Right? So that that's absolutely part of it. Packaging is such a sensory experience. And I think when you pair that with food, which is also a sensory experience, that it it just matters a whole lot. Right? And food entrepreneurs are constantly trying to distinguish themselves in a market, in whatever market they're in. I often will just tell the story of, like, you know, let's say you're picking up a dozen donuts till you're going to a party or you're going to an office gathering, and you go pick up a dozen donuts, you bring those. And maybe the most the most amazing donuts on the planet. If they're just in a white box and you've left them on the office boardroom table for everybody to help themselves, people might ask you if they're amazing where they're from, but they probably won't remember it, you know, if you say some random donut shop name because there's nothing to tie those together. There's nothing that but if they're in this beautiful branded box, if, a, they don't even have to ask you. They know right away where it's from. Right? And they're just gonna remember that, and they're going to that packaging is gonna have an impact. They're it's a it's a sensory experience. Right? So they're gonna associate that packaging with the smell and the taste of those amazing donuts they just had or a cake box or whatever. Or even just, like think of it I think of it as a walking billboard. Right? Like, one of our clients is Rosie's Burgers, which is an up and coming burger place. They've got three locations in Toronto currently. They're signing franchise deals all over the country, and we've we've been doing their packaging. And I went and picked up, a burger fries and whatever at their place over Christmas, and I got my handle bag that we made for them. And it said Rosie's Burger. And I'm, like, walking down the street, and I'm like, I'm feeling good because, like, I'm promoting them. Right? I'm feeling like as I walk down the street, people are like, oh, you know, like, people are noticing it. Right? It's a walking billboard. Not everybody understands the power of that and how it is, it's a marketing spend. Right? When you're spend it's it's going to cost you more for branded packaging than it is for that plain white box, of course. But it's marketing spent, and that's how you really need to look at it because it will have ROI in in that way. So Speaker 0
It does. I mean, I love a good packaging. I love opening like, the experience of opening something. Yeah. That's really boxing trends nowadays. And boxing and all of those things, and it's I I think it's it's part of the experience. You're not wrong. And whether it's food or clothing or whatever it is, you just sort of have, and then it becomes a memory. Speaker 1
Yeah. Absolutely. And it's just gonna be if the people see it again, then they'll be like, oh, I remember I like those donuts. Again, if they're in a plain white box, it means nothing. There's no connection there. Right? So Speaker 0
Yeah. Absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about you for a minute. Your career journey is fascinating. So, I think, you know, everybody can look it up, and you've you've started in food. And but, really, what I'd love to learn is what sort of skills and lessons did you learn from your time time at the charcoal that's helped you shape the way you lead Georgette packaging today? Speaker 1
So, yeah, I worked at the charcoal group for, about fourteen years. I had worked in hospitality and restaurants prior to that just as, like, you know, waitressing, put myself through school, that kind of stuff. Swore I'd never do it one again, once I was done, once I put myself through university. Speaker 0
And then I had Speaker 1
my kids and, you know, and I didn't wanna go back to it when I when I once I had two, I didn't wanna go back to, like, a nine to five job that would have me bring home work, right, when they were little. So I went back to serving, but, started at Sharples Steakhouse. And, really quickly, right away, I knew it was a different experience than other hospitality groups I'd worked at. I served, and then I worked my way up through private dining. I started the catering department at Wildcraft. I rang Wildcraft as a general manager before I left. And what I what I figured out pretty quickly and just never saw this dip in terms of their their approach was, you know, they believe in doing the right thing. What I mean by that is, is it the right thing by the customer or the guest as they're called? And that doing the right thing will never be the wrong thing. And I I've really taken that through my journey and my career that and I've always been that kind of person, but, you know, you get into other companies, and they don't always work that way, and you can't always be the person standing up, but, you know, especially to leadership and calling them out. But when leadership is working that way, it's really empowering. They're very good at empowering their frontline employees Speaker 0
to do the right thing. Speaker 1
You know? Just a part time server working ten hours a week can approach any manager and be like, you know what? I'm serving this table, and they're, you know, they're celebrating this today, and I really wanna do something special for them. And the managers are like, yeah. Let's do it. You know? Like, it's it's not it's not a top down in that way. It is about hospitality, and they believe that if you take care of your customers, your business will be taken care of. One of the hardest lessons for me was coming from a a business where if somebody wasn't having a great experience, say at, you know, Wildcraft for whatever reason, their steak wasn't cooked the way they wanted it to be cooked or what have you, I could spend a hundred dollars and take care of everything and make their night and, you know, and and win their win their business back. It's a little different now when somebody's spending twenty thousand dollars, you know, like, wave a magic wand to make that go away. So that that's been really you know, that was quite a quite a a learning lesson for me, but I still believe so it's it's a bit more of a partnership approach now, but I still believe that, you know, if you do the right thing by the client, and and they can feel that and they know that you are putting their best interest first, that that will pay dividends. I just had a meeting yesterday with a long term client of ours. We were talking about they have three donut box sizes. They carry a two box, a six box, and a twelve box for, like, a dozen donuts or whatever. And we had a big long conversation about, a, is the two box, like, worth it? Because the cost of that box and the sales you get for two donuts, you know, it doesn't really pan out necessarily, you know, and so maybe that's not worth it. And then I think I actually talk them into, like, dropping the twelve box and just giving people to six boxes when they want a dozen donuts because in in in that, you know, in those situations, I'm actually kinda talking myself out of sales. You know? Like, I could continue to sell them three donut box sizes and, you know, and and make more sales, but that's not what's best for them. Like, I truly don't believe it is. And so, you know, I think, ultimately, they know that. I could tell that they were like, oh, that's such a great idea. Like, let's talk about that and think about it, and they appreciated it. They appreciated that I was thinking about their business. And I you know, you can only you can only hope that that means that they will continue to trust the relationship and continue to Speaker 0
return. Well, that's great. It it's a great learning. I mean, building relationships is really the key. And what I find fascinating about what you just talked about is that it's applicable to various industries and various businesses. And, really, if you can understand the value of a relationship, you're probably can be successful wherever you like. So the other interesting part of your career, which I'm fascinated by, is that you bought Georgette while you were an employee. So that's not always an option, and it's not always a successful transition. And it's it's quite rare, actually, I think. So so what made you to decide to buy the company, and what was the transition like? Okay. Speaker 1
So, yeah, the situation was that I had at the time, I was working at Georgette part time. I had started I'd left Charcoal Group, started there full time, and then end up going to part time because I started my own food business, the crummy cookie dough. And the current the owner of Georgette, Sarah Landstreet, was incredibly supportive of me in that you know, and because she was an multi multi entrepreneur and, you know, was fully supportive of that, so allowed me to go down to part time and and all of that kind of thing. And I decided, my part my business partner and I decided to sell crummy cookie dough after the pandemic and whatever. And Sarah was sort of mentoring me through that process because she had been through it. And then she approached me knowing I was selling that, approached me with this idea and was like, well, so just just, you know, I'm trying to exit. And, by the way, you know, and I was like, oh, interesting. And I think a few things. I always have known that I'm a leader. That's not new. Like, I was the bossy kid, the bossy girl. You know? We don't call them bossy anymore. Thank god. But we try not to Speaker 0
use that word because, you know, you were strong and, you you know, you had good intentions. Speaker 1
Leadership qualities. Speaker 0
That's right. Exactly. Speaker 1
And and I always knew I had it in me to be an entrepreneur. I think I just lacked confidence or lacked thought I didn't have ideas or, you know, whatever. It just kind of it took me kind of a while to get to the point where, I could do it because I didn't really know what I was gonna do when we would when we decided to sell crummy cookie dough. I really had no idea. I was like, I guess I'm trying to figure out where I fit in my career now. Like, I just didn't know. But when she approached me with that, I was like, okay. This is a real opportunity to continue to be that leader, to continue to be an entrepreneur, be in charge of my own destiny with a company that, a, is already built to some extent. I also knew the business intimately. Right? I had been working there for, I think, three, four years at that point. And, yeah, I just I thought this is an incredible opportunity. The transition was interesting. So Sarah was Sarah was on her way to try and apply for medical school. So that was part of why she was leaving. So she we sort of contracted her for six months to, like, transition because there was two of us at the time. And so she was around for that period of time just to kind of, like, you know, download knowledge, you know, was the intention. Right? It got bumpy. I'm not gonna lie. Sarah and I have come out of it, and we are, you know, in touch still regularly. She's a good mentor to me because she knows obviously knows the company well and and wants nothing but for it to succeed. But that transition was bumpy. It was, there was power struggles. We had bought it from her on a, like, a vendor take back kind of a deal where we were paying her. So she still had investment in the company. Right? She still had wanted to make sure it succeeded to make sure she was gonna get fully paid. Totally understand. But, you know, obviously, they're just you know, there's like, who's who's really in charge. Right? So because she had been our boss and we, her employees, there was a set power dynamic that was difficult to change. Right? Because she was we were both we were trying to push back, but she was like, no. I'm in charge and you know? So, however, we were for that's when I met Trisha. Speaker 0
Oh, I didn't know that. Great. Yeah. Speaker 1
Okay. Yeah. So Trisha Mumpy reached like, it was just kind of like fate in the sense of, like, she reached out to us just to see if she could support the company at all, like, sort of just as we were having the conversations about buying from Sarah. And so when that all solidified, Trisha came on board as a mentor to help us through that transition time. And that was invaluable. She because she had just been through it not long ago with her own business, with Mable Staples. Right? And it was a little bit different, but lots of similarities. And so Yeah. She, she was really, really great. I would highly recommend that anybody going through some kind of business transition like that find somebody who's been through it with been through it in some way and have them because it's just it's just learning from somebody who's done it. Right? Like, why reinvent the wheel? Right. Speaker 0
Because there's a hundred things, and it's kind of the same. And I don't know about you. I mean, Trisha's and my transition exit were, bound by silence. Like, you couldn't tell anybody. Right. I you I know your company is smaller, and if an employee is buying it, was it a secret? And did you have to keep it a secret from a legal perspective, or was it something that was a little more open? Speaker 1
Yeah. No. It was a total secret until that was solved. Speaker 0
Part for me. Yeah. That was hard for me. Speaker 1
You know, nobody at the company knew that Sarah was looking to exit. So we even just you know, you don't want people to be, like, worried and, you know, and whatever. Speaker 0
It can cause chaos. I understand the reason for it, but the people keeping the secret, it is quite a burden, I find. Speaker 1
It was a lot. Like, I so I still had like, we hadn't finished selling crummy cookie dough. Like, there was sort of they the two things overlapped, and I couldn't even tell my business partner. I got permission from Sarah and the other employee at that time to tell her the day before the like, we did a sort of formal announcement to the team Mhmm. As part of, like, a town hall meeting. We chose to keep it on the down low to avoid chaos and to deliver the message in the way we want it delivered, which was like, this is a positive thing. This is an exciting thing that it went off like that, and I think it really helped, keeping that secret. But it was hard for sure. Yeah. It was definitely hard. And then Sarah was gone after six months, and then it was just us. And, and then my business partner decided to leave, and now it's just me. Speaker 0
So you almost had successive transitions, which is also a whole another thing. Right? Planned, unplanned. You kind of experienced all of it in a very short period of time. Speaker 1
It was at least a relief to, like, put all that behind me and just be like, okay. Now I just have to think about nothing but the business. And I'm really just enjoying, like, being the only one to make decisions right now, you know, and not having to consult with other people all the time. Like, it's kind of nice. Speaker 0
I think that's great. And I think it's great that you can say that. I think it's important for sure because, you know, it's you've had lots of different leadership scenarios, and now you have one that that you were looking forward to to sort of tackle, which is great. I think too, you know, leading as a woman a woman in business often means navigating, challenges differently, and you've obviously seen a variety of challenges. So how have sort of collaboration and diversity played a role in your leadership style? Speaker 1
So collaboration and diversity are huge assets to me in terms of leadership. Like, if you can embrace those as a leader, it's going to make your life easier. It's going to make your business better. So I've always been very collaborative anyway, just regardless. I firmly believe that no one person knows everything. Like, it's just not possible in in this world more than ever. You know, I've been proven wrong lots of times. You know? I'll have an idea of how to approach something or whatever, and then somebody will come at me with something else, a different perspective. I'm like, okay. You know what? I didn't think about that. So, you know, having the humility, I think, to understand that other people have important perspectives. And, ultimately, the buck stops with me, and I make the decision at the end of the day. But I am very much somebody who's just always believed in getting advice, and that that is something I've learned even more and more, you know, being in this kind of position, the challenges, the transitions I've been through. I I will say, like, although I've always been collaborative, I I was also I did have a tendency to make very quick decisions, and I've learned to slow down and collaborate on lots of things that maybe, you know, I wouldn't have in the past. And then, like, for diversity, I just think it's so, so important. There's so many examples of like, if you're if you have a homogeneous group at the table making a decision, you're you're missing out, and you could make mistakes, and you could alienate people and not even realize it. Right? So, you know, when I joined Georgette, we were very like, in terms of social media, you know, we have a physical product. It's a very aesthetic product, and we like to post about it. And, you know, that's been a huge contributor on it. Like, our Instagram has been a huge contributor to our sales and leads, and it still is. But we would really focus on, Christian holidays. So we would post at Christmas time somebody's beautiful Christmas packaging. We would post at Easter time somebody's beautiful Easter packaging, etcetera, etcetera. And there was never, never, never any posting about other holidays. Right? And I just I remember identifying that even as an employee and being like, hey. Like, can we crowdfund this somehow? And I couldn't tell you, you know, what that appropriate post would be, but can we talk about how to fix this? Speaker 0
Well, it's how you grew it's how you grew up. I mean, you talk about, I don't know what that post might look like. You would never say that at Christmas. You know it involves a Christmas tree and a presence under it. Like, you don't have to ask anybody because that's your lived experience. So the fact that you're asking what other people's lived experiences and how does that affect your business and and your marketing is it it's a great example of diversity, I think. Speaker 1
You know, I just think about those kind of examples in terms of diversity and how important it is and how important to decision making and also important to just the business and getting different types of clients. Right? It's it's huge. It's huge. Speaker 0
Empathy is a funny thing. We think of it as an unquestioned virtue, something that makes us better leaders, better colleagues, better human beings. And in many ways, it does. It helps build culture, foster connection, and create businesses that people actually wanna be a part of. But empathy has a sharp edge too, especially when money is involved because businesses still run on numbers, and that generosity has to have boundaries because sometimes, saying no and looking after yourself is the most empathetic thing you can do. I've also heard that you've talked about empathy being a huge strength in your career, but it also does have a flip side. So what did you mean by that? Speaker 1
I've always been a very empathetic person and a very gray thinker. I am never like, I can't think of a time when I'm just like, this is the right answer, and that's it. And empathy has been absolutely crucial to my career in terms of being able to be a gray thinker and being able to identify with people on the other side of a problem, whether it be a client or supplier or whatever, and how I approach that problem in a very collaborative way, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. But over the last few years with the very with the transitions that I've talked about and the the challenges that I've faced in in the various things going on with businesses, I've also realized that empathy has a downside over overempathizing. So the quote that I remember seeing, that kind of slapped me in the face was empathy becomes expensive when you have empathy for everyone but yourself. Speaker 0
Oh, I like that. Speaker 1
Yeah. And I kinda went, oh, yeah. I can absolutely look back at my last number of years transitioning the businesses and their ownership and all of that and looking in hindsight going, yeah, I was way too empathetic for the other people involved in those transactions and was too worried about identifying with them and what they were feeling and and not nearly worried enough about myself. And it's a hard balance because, you know, then you're trying to figure out when's when's it too much empathy, when's it not enough empathy. But, ultimately, I have learned to be a little bit colder in terms of business transactions, especially when they involve money. Sometimes I think about as a woman, I think that's part of being a woman too. Like, we're socialized and trained to put other people's feelings ahead of ours. And not I'm not saying everyone's like that. Obviously, that's not true, but we are absolutely socialized to prioritize other people. Right? And so it's been a hard lesson. It's been a hard transition to go, no. No. No. Like, I again, I go back to that relationship thing and, you know, and how that has got me places in my career and having empathy has absolutely got me places in my career, but knowing when to draw the line and have people understand. One of the things one of the sayings that's been resonating in my brain recently is don't mistake my kindness for weakness. Speaker 0
Well, it's a skill. I think we don't recognize that it's a skill. We we come in thinking, well, if we're thinking about the other person, they're probably thinking about us, and that's not true. And so it's a skill to draw the line and and know when when it matters to stand up. And you're not a pushover, and you could still be nice, but you're still gonna stand up for what you need for your business. Speaker 1
And just not allow people to manipulate me Right. And take advantage of my kindness. Like, you know, whether they were doing it intentionally or not or whether, you know, they they were. Like, I look back and then I go, yep. Yep. They were. Yep. That was absolutely what was happening there. They were preying on my kindness and my empathy Mhmm. To prioritize them over me, and I can't let that happen again. Speaker 0
Well, it's important to call it out because I think we've all been through it, and it makes the rest of us feel a little bit better when we know that we're not the only ones. Speaker 1
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Speaker 0
So we talked a little bit about sort of collaboration and diversity and empathy. And and in my research, I think I found one of the things you do that that exemplifies that is the packaging pool party, which I so love. So you've really made Georgette accessible to small businesses through this initiative. Can you tell us a little bit more about what it is and why it's important to support these smaller brands? Speaker 1
Yeah. Absolutely. So part of it goes back to our origin story as a business, and the founder, she knows the reason she started it was she had had a cupcake bakery of her own, really believed in design and marketing and the importance of it, and was incredibly frustrated with the ability to get really good quality packaging for a small business. So that like, it goes back to that, like, literally where our roots are. But as we've grown as a business, we've also, obviously, from a very practical, you know, pragmatic point of view, those smaller orders, those smaller businesses are not always the most profitable. So we've we've changed in terms of the or we've tried to change in terms of the types of clients we deal with, and we've, moved to a more profitable model, which is fine. Obviously, we've had to do that as a business. But at the same time, it's still been really important to me to be able to offer something to those people because number one, it's origin story. Number two, I've been that person. I was that person when we found a crummy cookie dough. So I I know what that's like. I think small businesses need need that marketing just as much, if not more, than a larger business. You know? So I wanted to find a way to reduce the barriers to entry, right, for branded packaging because there are, like, the minimum order quantities, the the total, you know, cost of spend. It's it's hard. It's high. And, also, a lot of them, just because they're small doesn't mean they're not ambitious. Right? Like, so many of our clients who we still deal with started small and have grown. Not all of them, but a lot of them have. And so, you know, it's really important to be able to make that accessible. Right? So the pool party is something that I really strongly believe is such a great way because, basically, like, how it works, if you're ordering a, you know, a donut box that fits six donuts. And, normally, as a if you're ordering them by yourself, you would need to order at least five thousand of them to get any kind of unit cost that makes sense. So what we did was we just decided, like, okay. There's efficiencies here. Right? If we're selling twenty thousand to one customer or if we're selling twenty thousand but breaking it up into five and five and five and five, There's efficiencies in the manufacturing process where, yeah, we still have to change out the print plates and maybe the ink wells, but we don't have to like, all the all the rest of it, all the rest of the overhead, the machines are already set up for the the construction of the box and all of that. So there's a huge savings. Right? So you can get five thousand boxes for the price that you would normally pay for twenty thousand. So that's that's, you know, just something that makes it accessible, and I think it's just really important to support those type of entrepreneurs. Like I said, I've been there. I know what it's like, and I just, yeah, I just am passionate about it. Speaker 0
I really love that initiative because small businesses turn into big businesses or you're not wrong. They can be a local business, and they can only ever do x, and that's what they want. And or they're at their success, and they're they're loving what they're doing. And and you can help them be more cost effective and then stay in business and be a a vibrant part of the community. I think it's such a cool initiative. I really do. Wish I had packaging because I would participate for sure. Makes me wanna package something. There's something about turning fifty. It's not just another birthday. It's a threshold, a shift, a moment when you start to see the world and yourself a little differently. For Jennifer, it came with a revelation. What other people think really doesn't matter, And this milestone isn't about age. It's about freedom. And what is she doing with this newfound freedom? Well, for starters, she's dancing. You recently turned fifty as did I. And so how does how has that milestone changed your perspective as a leader and an entrepreneur? Speaker 1
Honestly, it's changed everything in my life, I feel like, but, there was just I was just saying this to somebody the other day. Like, it was almost like this mental switch went off when I turned fifty in my brain. Like, literally, I was literally like, fuck it. Like, I'm going to do what I want to do, and I don't care what anybody thinks. Right? It's it it literally was just this paradigm shift. Right? And I do think it you know, you can comes down to, like, midlife, and you can call it a midlife crisis. You can call it whatever. It's like, you know what? I only have so many years left on this planet. I spent way too many of them caring what other people think. So, I mean, for me, it started off with things like like, I made a TikTok account, and I started doing TikTok getting, you know Speaker 0
Good for you. Speaker 1
And getting people, like, commenting, you know, go go home, grandma. I'm like, go like, I don't just because I'm fifty doesn't mean I don't like to dance or don't like, you know, or, like, really getting into working out again and fitness and health, but really focusing on it more from a health perspective. You know? When I was in my twenties, it was about looking good in a bathing suit. But now that I'm in my fifties, it's really about, you know, how do I increase my longevity and my strength to make sure I'm still active in my sixties, seventies, and eighties. Right? And and posting about that. So I've done, like, between Instagram and TikTok, I just started doing, again, post about dancing, posts about, you know, working out. And then I also start taking dance lessons, at a local dance studio. Yay. And I've been posting a lot of stuff about that too. Like, I'll post myself doing hip hop or heels or chair or whatever. And, you know, it's funny because I was really insecure about it at in you know, because it that's not our generation. We aren't we didn't grow up posting videos of our self dancing. Like, I didn't want anybody Speaker 0
to know what we were doing so we could get away with it. Speaker 1
In the room with our hairbrush. We weren't doing it for public reason. So it felt weird, and I felt like, oh, this is, like, cringey, and I'm trying to get attention. But literally almost every time I did it, I would have somebody either comment or reach out to me in a DM and just talk about how cool it was, how inspiring it was, you know, how, they were thinking about taking dance lessons now or or whatever. Right? So that all that to say, it kind of, like, that's where my brain started in terms of turning fifty and just kind of how I changed my perspective on life. And then I just think as well, then that translates naturally into leadership and business. I think part of it is just finding the fun and the joy no matter what. Like, whatever that means to you, life is short, and, you know, you've gotta find the joy no matter what. And that doesn't mean it's not gonna be stressful sometimes. But for instance, yesterday, and this is not something started by me at Georgette, but we do an annual pancake flipping contest on pancake Tuesdays. Speaker 0
Oh, I love that. That's such a great idea. Speaker 1
It's so fun. And, like, you know what? We're having a really stressful time in our business right now because of the tariffs and, you know, everything that's happening. But, like, it's two hours out of the week. We're gonna take we do we do these, you know, classic flip and run contests, and we time each other. We have heats and, you know, and just it's fun competition. And then we sit down to a pancake lunch together, And it's joy. It's joy. It's, you know, it and so, yeah, it's it it helps inform my decisions around being a leader and making sure that I am setting a good example for those kind of things in the business, making sure that their joy and fun are just as important. And it is one of our workplace values. Like, finding joy is one of our workplace values. So just keeping and that was something that I instituted those workplace values, just, like, about a year ago. And so that you know, all of that stuff up at turning fifty informs those kind of things. Right? And then also just that whole, like, just not being not being concerned with what people think. It sounds like it's maybe counterintuitive to the collaboration thing, but it's not. You know, I'm still getting advice and that from people and still taking in different perspectives. But at the end of the day, I have to live with me, and I have to look myself in the mirror. And, I will do what is right what I feel is right at the end of the day, and and I care so much less about what people think about that than I did five years ago even. It's crazy. Speaker 0
And I think the sooner the sooner you figure that out, anyone, the sooner you figure it out, the better off you're gonna be because it's not like you're not hearing the other person. It means you're not taking it home. It's meaning you're not living rent free in your head. It means you're in control of your decisions, and you take what people say and you make the decision. And and what people think about it, it doesn't really matter. Speaker 1
Yep. Exactly. Like I said, I I've gotta look myself in the mirror. Right? At the end of the day, I have to do I have to do what I think is right. Yeah. And if you don't agree with it, that's totally fine, but you don't have to look at me in the mirror. So Right. Speaker 0
Yeah. Exactly. Oh, I think it's great. I mean, what a great philosophy, really, is is not not really caring what people think and finding the joy. Those are two really important things, I think, as we enter this phase of our life, and good for you for calling it out and recognizing and living it. I mean, that that's the other thing. We can talk about it, but living it's a whole another thing. Speaker 1
It is. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I just don't care anymore. I don't care that I'm twenty years older than everybody else in my dance class. You know? I don't like, I literally don't care. I'm just having fun. And if you wanna judge me, that's a you problem. Right? Not me. Speaker 0
Right. Now you mentioned dancing. I'm gonna give you a little left left Sure. Left of center question because I research because that's what I like to do. So I saw on the website, the question was, if you could instantly become an expert in something, what would it be? And you said singing in a parallel universe. I'm on Broadway starring in Hamilton. I resonate with that. I'm a not secret at all Broadway lover. Every show, every song, and I only sing with a hairbrush. So what a great ambition of yours. I I envy your ability to say that out loud. Speaker 1
Yeah. I, I mean, I can kind of hold a tune, but not, like, not to any place where I would perform. One of my favorite things to do when I'm really stressed is to be in the car and just belt out whatever. Right? And sometimes it's Broadway. Hamilton's my favorite. I think I know every lyric off my heart. But also just, like, really, like, hip hop, r and b, whether it's nineties, two thousands, or current day, like, I love nothing more than just blasting the music in the car and driving around and performing for myself. People pull up to me at the stoplight, and I'm like, yeah. That's you know, whatever. But Speaker 0
That's me. Yep. Although I do I do the exact same thing. That's exactly I mean, my Broadway playlist is very vast. I do love Hamilton. I think I pretty much love all of them. I had the privilege of seeing Chorus Line on Broadway before it closed as, like, I was quite young. And then at the same time by accident, we saw Tyne Daly and Gypsy just as the extra show you picked up to right. And I knew nothing about the show. I was, like, fourteen or whatever. I don't know. And I didn't know anything about the show. I didn't know anything about her, and it just I just became obsessed with the whole thing. I like, I love seeing a show I don't know about, and then you dive in and love it and love it further. It's fantastic. So I love finding other Broadway lovers. Speaker 1
Yes. I mean, for me, my Broadway journey has been more specific in terms of, like, I'll watch something, and then it really hits home with me. I'll become obsessed with it. Like Mhmm. Rent Rent was like Oh, Speaker 0
I love Rent. Speaker 1
Oh my goodness. God. I love that show. You know, Wicked, like, that, you know, that kind of stuff. I don't go to New York without seeing a show. Mhmm. Music and singing and dancing, I'm just in love with. And, you know, I that's why, like, I took dance as a kid, and I never really went any farther with it. And I remember my mom I really, like, came back at my mom in my thirties, and I was like, why didn't why did you let me quit dance? Right? Because I was like, I really wish I still, you know, got those skills. And she was like, well, you wanted to quit when you got to high school, and it cost a lot of money. So that was it. Speaker 0
I was just gonna say that's when I stopped, and that's when a lot of that stuff happens. And, you know, we're trying to prevent that now in sport and dance and all the other things to so that girls don't drop out of those things because there's such a benefit. But, yeah, I was the exact same. Speaker 1
So, yeah, I'm just trying to change. I'm never gonna be on Broadway, but I just try and like, I did a video the other day for my dance studio. They were they're interviewing different, dancers that come to the studio about why they dance stuff. And one of the questions was, what are you most proud of with regards to your dance journey? And I was like, honestly, like, getting back on stage after thirty five years. Like, I hadn't been on stage since I was an early teenager. And then literally when I turned fifty, I got on stage at an outdoor festival in Kitchener and did this heels dance routine, and I was, like, so nerve right? Thirty five years it had been. And but I just did it, and, and I don't regret it. It was it was awesome. Speaker 0
Good for you. Good for you. I think that's fantastic. I mean, you've given us all kinds of great advice and all kinds of great stories that you've shared. But before I let you go, I wanna ask, what advice do you have for the next generation of women leaders? Speaker 1
For number one, I I actually find a ton of inspiration from young women. I think whether it's millennials or Gen z, they are so good, I find, the ones that I've interacted with, are so good at way better than we are about calling out sexism, about standing up for themselves. So I think growing up in a different world. Right? We had to learn that. You know, when we were in the eighties and nineties, we didn't really recognize it for what it was, and we were just socialized into that. And there's still lots to be changed and done, but I find that women in their twenties and thirties are really, really good at that, and I really am inspired by it. So I would just say, like, continue to do that. Right? It's so important, and you're just setting the table for the generations coming up behind you. But I think also, like, kind of tying in what we've talked about is, you know, find a way earlier in your life to not care what people think. You know? It really took me turning fifty and, you know, obviously, that's a bit of cliche, but it's also just a natural journey as you age that you're gonna think differently about your life. But if there's a way to incorporate that sooner in your life, to really, like, continue to collaborate, continue to get advice from people, but also once you've done that to trust your own instincts and just try not to question yourself, because your instincts are good. You can care what they have to say. You can care enough to get their advice from people you respect, but, ultimately, it doesn't matter what they think. You gotta look yourself in the mirror. And if there's a way to do that when you're twenty five or thirty, find it because it's gonna change your life. Speaker 0
Oh, thank you. That's good advice for, I think, anybody, any woman of any age. So thank you for sharing, and thank you for taking the time. This was so much fun. Speaker 1
Yeah. No problem. It was fun. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Speaker 0
Voices of Leadership is part of the Bespoke Productions Hub network of independent podcasters. If you are interested in partnering with us as a sponsor or if you have a podcast of your own, please visit bespoke productions hub dot com for more information. This episode is hosted, produced, and edited by me, Amy Schluter. 
